Mandalore's Mask and the Ordo's...

[Hondo Karr]

Alrighty, so most know what the mask of Mand'alors the Indomitable and Ultimate looked like (no idea who the "New Mandalore" is in the pic...



I just finished reading TOR: Revan (great book btw but the ending left me a bit dissappointed). In it, Revan and Canderous Ordo recover the mask of the Mand'alor where Revan and Malek had hidden it. Canderous put it on and claimed the title of Mand'alor the Preservor.

Now, the only Im aware of of Canderous as Mand'lor are this and similar such artwork:


This is supposed to be Canderous as Mand'alor... at least to my knowledge. I havent played allt he games and read all the guides from that timeline more just the "Cliff Notes" version. If that is correct, we may either see a retcon down the road as a visual appeaarance or, there was clearly a re-smelting done. But, we cann assume regardless, the mask he and Revan recoverd and what it looked like when he recovered it was as it looked when possessed by MTI and MIU.

The mask dissappears for sometime post Canderous. It's not really seen or mentioned in any canon sourcing Im aware of again.

In teh Legacy comics, the Mand'alore is Chernan Ordo, seen here:



In studying this, the mask is clearly "on" the face of the helmet. It doesn look incorporated as Canderous's does. Also, the LEgacy helmet design isnt a far cry from the helmet design on Canderous Ordo.

No idea if a retconn is coming, no idea is the mask worn by Chernan is suposed to be the same mask work by the previous Mand'alors, a resmelted mask, a new mask altogether. At this point we dont even know if Chernan Ordo is a relative of Canderous Ordo but, guessing how Star Wars roles, I would wager he is a direct decendant and his helmet/mask is the original kre'bes. But alas, unless someone revisits the Legacy timeline via game, book or comic we may never know and even then they would need to focus on the Mandalorians.

A couple months back when I thought I was "done" with the Night Owl helmet and had time to kill while waiting for back of helmet images, I started work on what would essentially be Chernan's helmet. No idea how it would play into the other charcters, if at all. It really just has some fine detail work left. In it's current state it is sculpted onto a Legacy V2 helmet base. Im not sure if I will leave it that way or cut it off so it's a mask.

Im currently at work so I dont have any pix. I will post some up this afternoon or evening.

In the meantime, speculation? commentation? Does anyone have some canon goodies they can share to help tie things together?

[Mandalore the Uniter]

The New Mandalore is from SW: TOR

[Jacad Adfai]

If i'm correct, That is Mandalore the Vindicated, he killed Mandalore the Lesser. knowing he was a puppet of the sith.

[Novoc Mereel]

Yes, that is a picture of Canderous after he assumed the role/title of Mand'alor.  Your brief history was correct.   

Side note:  Star Wars KotOR I and II are two of my favorite RPGs of all time, and I've beaten both at least 10 times, I'd estimate.

[DoseOrdo]

The image you have as the "new mandalore" is concept art of mandalore the vindicator. His end product looks nothing like that, and he has no mask.

I feel that the legacy pictures would be a stretch to say the mask is on. He is murdered right after that frame and the new mandalore doesnt take a mask.

[Hondo Karr]

Thanks Dose, being a SW Gamer, I figured you may know!

As for the mask, who knows what the Eu will tell us in time. I can't imagine the mask reappearing without significance! Hopefully someone will revisit that era sooner rather than later!

Here is the mask I have made:


It's based on the Chernan Ordo mask that was mounted to his helmet. In fact, I built the mask on the faceplate of one of my LV2's. Potentially, it's a "generic" Crusader Taung/Mandalorian Mask.

I'll cast one up later this week and then Ill cast another LV1 and mount it on. Hopefully I can debut Falin Skirata, Mand'alor the Reconciler at Wonder Con in 2 weeks!

[DoseOrdo]

The mask showed in SWG ... BUT... It was I deco/collection item that anyone could have as many as they wanted. I would consider it as canon.

[Blackbird]

The way I understand it was that there wasn't a Mandalore for quite a while before SW:TOR.  Mandalore the Lesser was pretty much invented by the Empire, and after a while people caught on to that and Mandalore the Vindicated killed him in a duel and became the first legit Mandalore in a long time.
This leads me to believe that Mandalore the Lesser, while actually a Mandalorian, still never owned the mask.  I don't have any evidence to support that besides that he was propped up by the Empire and their PR machine and never really earned his title.
Here's a pic of Mandalore the Lesser's helmet / mask combo.

I can see the resemblance to the possibly reforged mask, but it's not exactly conclusive.
Here is a pic of Mandalore the Vindicated.

That's obviously not any of the previous masks.

I wish there was someone who we could ask.  I've heard of people getting email responses from Drew Karpyshn on stuff like this, but I don't know how much info he would actually have on this topic.
does anyone know if they released any art books for the KOTOR games like they have with most recent releases?

EDIT:
I just read through the KOTOR: Sith Lords strategy guide (probably the closest to a "making of" book) and there's no mention of his redesign there.  It appears to be an intentional design (I thought he may have had a "generic" mando helmet, but they still use the Crusader type helmet in the game) and it doesn't look like you have the option to modify the look in the game.
It really seems to me like Canderous reforged the mask for some reason.

EDIT AGAIN:
I just found this guys helmet in the KOTOR comic:

It shares a lot of the same design elements as the Canderous mask.  And here's another shot (it MAY be the same character but I doubt it):

I don't know... is Mandalore's mask supposed to be a unique design?

[K'raysh Cadera]

Hey look, a Cylon. 

[Hondo Karr]

It was a unique design, at least until it was possiby reforged by Canderous.

However, that Mandalorian on the dropship LOOKS like Canderous and he was around at that time if Im getting the timelines correct.

Perhaps the images weve seen will be retconned to be prior to reclaiming the mask? Hard to say?

The masks were primarily worn by the Taung. By the time humans and other species came into play it was primarily helmets.

[Lucas McCoy]

Those are the same style masks that could be worn in SWG by rebel characters

I'm sure the thing about the true Mandalore actually having the mask was a tradition that became more and more unimportant as the wars went on. If Jango/Fenn/Boba had it, we know they didn't wear it and they probably had it hidden somewhere

[DoseOrdo]

some Mandalores could just hold onto it...

[Mandalore the Uniter]

Honestly, I  believe that over time, the symbology of the mask was replaced by the symbology of the Krybes.  Which is why we see the Krybes stylized different (but fundamentally the same) for every successive Mandalore.  Sure, the Mask held a greater presence as the icon of leadership in it's day.  As the Mask as an icon of leadership began to wane, then leaders would turn to a newer more "of the times" icon to use.

It's difficult to put faith in a relic because over time a relic is going to be destroyed, lost, or stolen.  The Mask of Mandalore is most definitely a relic that at some point has been destroyed, lost, or stolen until canon makes it otherwise known.

[Hondo Karr]

True. But, SOME mask has surfaced or resurfaced in Star Wars Legacy 41 on Mand'alor Chernan Ordo's helmets. Whether it's the original, a new one, recovered from being lost or stolen or hidden under the Ordo family mattress for a couple thousand years we have no way of knowing.

After reading TOR: Revan and the part of Canderous picking up the mask and putting it on and declaring himself Mand'alor... it was simply written but very powerful. There is something about a phyical piece, especially to a culture built on tradition and passing down of trophies, that will always trump the ability to paint a sigil on in it's physical and tangible significance.

Plus in all fairness, the jaing skull (both the mask and sigil are/were the kre'bes) has become a bit watered down in the EU. It started as being worn by ONLY the Mand'alor and no one else. It is what set him apart from everyone. By the Modern Era/Fett times, the EU show's every other Mandalorian wearing one which has dramatically lowered it's value as a sign of authority or rank.

In TOR: Revan, the sheer regard for the piece the Mandalorians had was immeasurable. They were willing to literally scour the galaxy for it, sacrifice their lives and their clans to find it. There is/was only one and only the fitted and most worthy could possess it.

Anyway, the thread was for a bit of speculation or, if someone had found a canon source that I was unaware of but, it seems wer'e all in the dark on this one. It's basically an untold story (which Baelin and I can have a little fun in our Wiki's with it).

That said, I did put the mask in rubber before work this morning. I'll keep an eye on it today, I can most likely demold the master tomorrow and cast  a couple up.

[lolow]

that guy made a good version of it , and does great armors http://mywickedarmor.com/costumes/mandaloreU.htm



and this is where that mask started from http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalore_the_Ultimate